Interview With Phyllida Lloyd

The Iron Lady tells the story of Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, from her humble beginnings to becoming one of the most powerful and controversial figures in modern history, and her life after government as an elderly woman.  Director Phyllida Lloyd, who directed Mamma Mia! the biggest box office release in U.K. history, spoke with Kevin Robinson about her new film, how age and gender are viewed in society and media,  and her path to becoming a filmmaker.

Kevin Robinson:  You have most of your success in the theater and stage productions, why choose film all of a sudden?

Phyllida Lloyd:  It came out of doing the stage show of Mamma Mia! I was just lucky that the producer of the stage show who owned the production just decided… I think she thought maybe she’d get more of the spirit of what was in the original by holding on to me, the devil she knew.

KR:  After your widely successful feature debut for Mamma Mia!, why did you decide to take on one of the most powerful figures of the 20th Century as the subject for your followup film?

PL:  Well, I’m always drawn to stories about women who’ve led big lives.   Margaret Thatcher is one of the most controversial characters in British public life and still remains so.  But what struck me about this were the discussions about the rights and wrongs of her policy.  Either she is this sort of monster she-devil or she is the blessed St. Margaret who saved the nation.  This is a film about something else, this is a film about power and about loss of power.  And also a film about gender and class, what it might have felt like to be a lower middle class woman at a time where women were not going into politics.

KR:  There are things going on today in the U.S. that echo the era of Thatcher’s government in the U.K., when you were making the film, did those thoughts cross your mind?

PL:  Yes, it was extraordinary and I think that is something the Old Lady has going through her head.  It’s like Groundhog Day, here we are again.

KR:  Has the former Prime Minister seen the film?

PL:  Not to my knowledge, no.  She’s supposed to not really watch stuff about herself. She never read newspaper reports about herself, which I think is a very good move.  It’s a very cool thing to not put yourself in the front lines of those savage reports about her,  but get it all moderated by a third party.

KR:  How do you think the U.K. audience is going to react to The Iron Lady?

PL:  A lot of people have reacted to it and haven’t seen it,  which is kind of wild.  I think it’s going to be controversial.  I think my generation are very entrenched in their views about Margaret Thatcher.  The generation below me who did not live through the 1980′s, I think will come at it with a completely open mind.  I think they will be interested to know about our history, but also hopefully, will be able to engage with the sort of universal story of it.  In some way it’s intended to be a story about you and me, it’s just that her life was large.  It’s like our lives in which we are all dealing with career and your family, how do you balance one against the other, what is the cost of investing a massive amount in a career. It’s something we kind of take for granted with male politicians, but when we see it played out by a woman, suddenly the whole thing is in real relief about how there always is a cost for everything we do.

KR:  Beside her obvious talent and the fact that you worked with her in Mamma Mia!, why did you choose Meryl Streep for the title role, and not to be outdone, Alexandra Roach as the young Margaret Thatcher?

PL:  Everybody agreed that we needed a superstar to play Margaret Thatcher, she was a larger than life character, she had a massive presence, a massive personality, and a massive charisma.  All of which Meryl has.  And this was a titanic role, she had to play her from 49 years old  to 85.  She had to play Margaret Thatcher before she had the voice change and after she had the voice change.  It was a technical feat, but also it was beyond the technical challenge of it, it was an emotional challenge.  Meryl responded to the screenplay very much, not from the biopic aspect of it, but from the human story.  She was interested in the invisibility of old age.  That was such a revelation talking about marginal groups, that an old person is not necessarily big box office, metaphorically speaking.   I hope this old person (Thatcher) will be big office.  Alexandra came in and read for the role and there was just something about her that felt to me like she came from another time.  A natural wit that seemed to shine with Meryl’s own wit.  There was something in her, an inner seriousness that we responded to.

KR:  You made mention about strong women in history and being in male dominated arenas,  we can talk about the film industry.  You’re a female director in an industry dominated by men, what are your thoughts about that?

PL:  Well I have to say I have never realized quite that I was a woman director until I stepped onto the James Bond studio at Pinewood on the first day of Mamma Mia! and saw more than 100 men standing there all greeting each other and saying “good morning, sir” , “good morning, gov’ner”, and then turning to me and thinking “what do we call her?”.  There isn’t really a word for it.  I really, in that moment, realized that I was the outsider and it was quite a shock.  I was an exception in Mamma Mia! because I had something that already existed, I had this product.  Had it been an original idea, it’s very unlikely I would have done my first movie at Universal Studios with that kind of budget.  It is a problem for women, and it’s vexing because I think there’s a huge audience out there and I think the stories we want to tell don’t fit into that pre-packed box that a studio has in it’s mindset. I’m segueing off to age and gender, it’s tricky there aren’t enough movies for an increasingly aging population.  Old people means anyone over 50 in the studio’s eyes.

KR:  What advice do you have for young girls or women who want to get involved in the film industry?

PL:  I think things really are changing.  I think that…inch by inch we are getting there and we have to have courage that there are so many untold stories that people want to hear.  Girls have to help each other.  People in my position have got to give as many girls we can a leg up onto the wagon train and see if we can carry a few people forward.

KR:  What do you hope people get out of seeing The Iron Lady?

PL:  Maybe they’ll be less likely to pass by an old lady on the street and not notice her, but think “there’s a very old person there, I wonder what kind of big life they might’ve had”.